I am getting ready to have 6x24 wood-look porcelain tile installed. It should be white THINSET. Probably the best way to avoid this nightmarish scenario is to, yes, you guessed it right, use grout in the process of installation. If you don't fill it grout, something else will find its way in there, and that something else will be soap scum, dead skin cells, dirt, etc., which increases the odds of growing mold, etc. It makes me wonder how such practices get started. This means that you will have to work on them again. Having said all of these, let us now take a look at why installing tiles without grout lines is a bad idea and why you should not break traditional tiling methods. No one can know everything. This is yet another reason to ditch the entire concept of installing tiles without the use of grout. HELP ASAP!! Use black epoxy grout for granite that is dark and white for lighter granite tiles. Exactly right. Secondly Marble does NOT need to be sealed prior to installation. The point is that because they move, unless you install grout, they will, eventually, chip and break. This means larger grout lines, 3/16 inch for example, are necessary to achieve a polished look without emphasizing these variations. What grout does, is that it allows you to cover the differences in the sizes of the tiles and get a better grip on the final outcome. Because the tiles move, as a result, the edges of the tiles will regularly rub with each other. It can be things such as dust, dead cells or may be even other debris. This is the very reason that many who are new to tile installation may think that grout is not necessary. This is a nice area and there are mNy high end stores and many clients that would teAr a bad apple in court if there were problems. Thanks. These outdoor tiles are backed with plastic grids with interlocking tabs that simply snap together. This will make the final outcome look a bit off and also look very unprofessional. If your tile project is in a dry area, you can install a specific kind of ceramic tile without grout. I've seen a lot of people do gray grout with the white subway tiles lately. The quick answer is nothing closer than 1/16. Groutless tile has a higher Have done a lot of research, looked up the TCNA standards and explanation of the various reasons why it should be a certain grout line width and how to reduce lippage. Water can and does get behind tile and grout, regardless of the size of the grout line. Some even want to install their tiles with no grout at all. ". Of course, I wouldn't want those anywhere near a shower. Here we take a look at whether you can tile without grout. How Do I Keep White Marble Tile from Tuning Grey When Installed. Consider a narrow tile spacer if possible. All Rights Reserved, Safety, Standards and Parameters of EICR Reports, The Pros and Cons of Bridging Loans: All You Need to Know, Initiatives Launched Addressing Problematic Gambling, How the Global Film Industry Will Bounce Back. Best of all: no grungy grout to repair or refill. Tiles installed without grout have a much higher chance of breaking. Better reason than that. You can literally spend hours toiling and putting the tiles together and you may even be pretty pleased with the result. Rectified tiles are perfectly uniform, with precisely defined edges, requiring the least amount of grout. It is imperative that YOU inform YOURSELF. But what this really costs is beyond me, and I'm sure there is extreme variation. Tiles move, yes you read that right, tiles do move. Don’t ever lay tile without grout, the tile will prematurely crack and chip rubbing against each other. Unless they are “rectified” they will differ, even if only a tiny amount, from tile to … Rectified tiles are perfectly uniform, with precisely defined edges, requiring the least amount of grout. Even with rectified tiles, it is not recommended to lay tiles without grout. Its all about contractors hiring their friends and keeping them as special. Epoxy vs. Cement Grout — What's the Difference? Each material has its limits/rules. Just curious. Then there is also the common statement that when you install tiles without grout, it simply looks better and that it makes the work seem much more well put together. All the contractors we have worked with prefer it that way because they don't have to try to figure out what we want. Just go white and hide the grout. In order to check off all the boxes, you'll need to mix the thin-set and grout just right, apply it evenly, and give it time to cure. I am a wallet to them. Another very important point to note is that you should not make the mistake of assuming that you can clean the tiles after they have been installed. En continuant à naviguer sur ce site ou à utiliser cette application, j'accepte que le groupe Houzz utilise des cookies ou d'autres technologies similaires pour améliorer ses produits et services, me proposer du contenu pertinent et personnaliser l'expérience utilisateur. I will make sure our installer spends the necessary time on making sure the subfloor and cement boards are properly prepared. The house we are living in, I designed, selected, purchased the material and hired the contractor to do the job according to my instructions. This will result in a final outcome that has a very nice and symmetrical look. Some are more knowledgeable about one thing, others about something else. Personally, I think it looks like your grout is old and moldy when you do that. If you have ever seen tiles, either on walls or the floors, then you have seen grout. We have renovated 3 houses. Back to why it's a bad idea. Sophie, I understand what you are saying...but, 3/8 is actually 1/8th wider than 1/4. Now think about that for a second, do you want that to happen to your tiles? But without applying grout, there will always be those small pesky spaces that can act as magnets for attracting debris and dust. Mastic should NEVER be used to install stone, ANYWHERE. But my GC will likely show up for 10 minutes when carpet installation begins, and thats it. There are some tiles that are designed not to have grout. So if the GC's carpet people get the work, I will be 'told' a price ... And if anything goes wrong, I will pay to repair it. This means that you will have to work on them again. Why you need grout a lot of natural stones namely granites and marbles. En savoir plus. Narrow grout lines are becoming popular because less grout means less cleaning and maintenance. All of the new "stacked stone" type tiles would look absurd with grout lines. I am on a time crunch so I cant do much comparison, but I expect the experience to be like buying used cars. That alone puts me on alert for price gouging. They are smooth and uniform edges that let you get the smallest joint possible (usually 1/8 or 3/16”). Is this a wise thing to do and how do you keep the water from getting onto the wallboard behind the tiles. Wipe the tile one final time to remove any thinset on the surface sides of the grout joint. If smaller spacers like 1/8" are used, it will accentuate the size difference of handmade tile. Well, very simply put, the short and simple answer is a no. It's not like grout … Grout is a necessary and integral part of many tile jobs for several reasons: It keeps moisture out … did you see that Home Makeover, they put in the floor tile without grout and they said it was super terrific. Now, as for the OP-- Although the grey thinset will make a difference, I think alot of what you're seeing is moisture from the thinset. The "_______" will take responsibility argument is weak. I make sure to inform myself about all aspects of any work on our houses. Cancork, I understand what you are saying. There are only 4 bedrooms, and about 100 quick digital shots of the new baseboards, etc will be helpful. installing subway tile in matte white, chosing grout color. The differences are usually so minor and miniscule, that it is almost impossible to tell apart without the help of some sort of precise measurement. Use vitrified tiles, which are made of compressed clay dust, if you wish to install tiles without grout. what can I do to improve this corner beside my powder room vanity. Use epoxy to grout a countertop in the small spaces that may get overlooked. Grout prevents the tiles from rubbing against one another when they go through the process of expansion and contraction. Having said all of these, let us now take a look at why installing tiles without grout lines is a bad idea and why you should not break traditional tiling methods. Homeowners Definition of Grout – The dirty lines between my tiles. No, it's a bad idea, but not for the reasons you think. First, the smallest grout lines, less than 1/8 inch, are ideal for rectified tiles. The darkish brown lines in between the bright white tiles seemed to accentuate the not-so-random pattern, plus it had seen years and years of wet feet and sporadic bathroom cleaners. Grout Lines for Floor Tiles As a general rule, floor tiles should have grout lines of 1/8 inch or larger, depending on the type and size of tile; most floor tiles are 8 inches by 8 inches, but larger versions are available. When you butt tiles together, there is still a very small gap. Luckily I'm old enough to say that this is my last. The GC offers a 1 year warranty by law. First, Debbi's half right. Given what I have just said, are there advantages of carpet stores vs contractors brokering the deal? It takes up a lot of time, and it requires meticulous work. No, it's a bad idea, but not for the reasons you think. Let's talk about grout size options. It was time for a refresh. This can be a pretty daunting task as just even the smallest of mistakes has the potential to permanently damage the tiles which will then need repairs or replacements. Belgravia Capital Holdings Ltd It CAN be, but unless you're using a grout with a fine (staining) pigment to it, there's no need. I find things all over the Internet- my favorite place to shop- put cant even get a weak approximation to what certain carpets cost. Something like this (picture shown tiles fitting closed to each other - Not fireplace specific): Obviously I have never done tile without grout before. Tile and grout do not provide the waterproofing in a shower. It’s easy to paint the entire surface but consider getting creative by NOT painting the grout lines. Most carpet stores will do much better. There are cases when laying tile without grout will probably leave the job looking a lot better.But here’s the thing: if you want the job to last, then you need to use grout. Understandably, most installers have a love-hate relationship with grout. The purpose of grout is to prevent such scenarios from taking place. Thanks Terriks and Bill, I had a feeling it was not good to do. If the tiles are not identical they will appear unaligned. Published: 13.01.2020. on that organic matter. ", .............ya know , I was reading on the internet last nite. Why's that, you might wonder. Does anyone have any experience with Norstone products - particularly the Platinum Planc? This includes contractors. DIY-friendly, groutless stone tiles are about $12 per square foot. We will assume no, hence grout. Cliks is designed to be used on interior floors that are not exposed to standing water which basically means they can be used anywhere except the shower. The Importance Of Sealing Your Stone And Tile Floors The most important role of grouting is hiding any differences in size between tiles.Floor tile without grout. Aug 23, 2017 … Well, the short answer would be a simple no – you should not attempt to install tile without grout. Grout is an important part of the tile installation process. The carpet is for the bedrooms only - everything else is hardwood except tile in the bathrooms. When re-modeling floors, bathroom or a kitchen almost everybody wants to have the minimum grout lines between their tiles. Period. "No matter WHERE it's being installed in the home, it's a bad idea". However, the experts will normally in almost all cases tell you that this option is not a particularly good one. Given enough time, these debris and dust will accumulate to such an extent that it will ruin the whole tiling installation. Not when you follow these pro tips, Wall-mounted pit stops are handy in more than just man caves — and they can look better than you might think, Get your grout right to keep your tile beautiful and for an installation that will last, Heading into darker territory, subway tile offers a graphic new look for kitchens, bathrooms and more, Banish an eyesore and safeguard your bathroom from water damage in 30 minutes or less with this DIY repair, Step 3 in swapping your tub for a sleek new shower: Pick the right tile and test it out, then choose your grout color and type, Personnaliser mon expérience à l'aide de cookies. Yes, you can paint your floors! There are special grouts for "invisible" joints. Tile and grout do not provide the waterproofing in a shower. You have to respect, install and treat it accordingly. Without these precise edges, much more grout is needed to even things out across the floor. I still am not sure if there are advantages. Doesn't mean it's right, or even a good idea. No grout tile or rectified tiles are cut at an angle so that they may not need grout because they are cut to an accuracy of 0.2 mm and don't have the unaligned look. Hi this is a really old thread but I've discovered a product (Norstone Platinum Planc) that stands by no grout, even in the shower. Calculating and cutting tiles The next ting worth considering is the importance of properly cutting tiles, as well as making a calculation for a countertop without grout lines. Vitrified tiles are straight and square and can be installed butted up against one another without a joint. 9 Ways Grout–Yes, Grout–Can Add to Your Design, Finishing Touches: Pro Tricks for Installing Fixtures in Your Tile, 3 Key Steps for Grouting That Looks Its Best, Living Small: City & Small Space Consulting, Convert Your Tub Space Into a Shower — the Tiling and Grouting Phase. Even if all the tiles look like they are the same size I can nearly guarantee they are not. According to the American National Standards for Ceramic Tile, 0.0025 inches is the maximum allowable variance to install ceramic tiles without grout. That said, I think the floor that ASI Renovations laid looks beautiful and you can come lay a floor in our house anytime. Leave the tile spacers in place while the adhesive is … It does tend to take up a lot of time and it requires a lot of effort and hard work. I have had numerous problems, and even brought in an attorney at times. I'd much rather have grout between my tiles than a bunch of gross junk. It is pretty understandable that most people who install tiles have a sort of love-hate relationship with grout. Any ideas? I would wait a bit before trashing the project. I do hope you're adding some kind of color elsewhere, somehow. She lives in Florida and said it is done a lot down there. Calculator.co.uk These can all find a way in between your tiles and it does not matter how tight you think the installation is. Good website to shop online for backsplash tile? It does not matter what the size of the project is, there are certain elements that are very likely to get between your tiles if you do not grout them. Yes, they should have had the customer sign off. Tiles must be spaced evenly, using spacers, and weight must be kept off it while it sets. Having wood-like-tile installed, what size of grout line?? Although in some people’s opinion butting the tiles against one another looks better than having even the smallest grout lines, it is not a recommended installation procedure. A flawless, lustrous surface contributes to elegant and minimalistic look of the room, making it seem more spacious. To see tiles that are not aligned properly after you spend hours toiling on installing them, we can assume would be the last thing you would want. The waterproofing is done behind the tile. Special types, such as slate or quarry tiles, often do not have edges uniform enough to look good with tight spacing. Grout is grout, right? Grout acts as a buffer in instances such as this. Everyone likes a different width when it comes to grout lines. I've only bought new homes, never remodeled used ones. Many homeowners dream of a perfectly smooth floor without unaesthetic lines. It's just really tiny grout joints. Every single tile installation is never complete without grout. If this is a dry-wall application, such as a kitchen backsplash, you may not wish to grout this tiles at all. We are looking for nice, but not over the top woven nylon (no wool) carpets - the kind that can look good for 20+ years. Help me clean it. If this area will be subject to water or moisture, you will still need to grout the tiles, despite their lack of joint. If my hunch is correct regarding the sizing of the tiles then try and have the the grout lines on the base board hit the mid point on the floor tile. If you want to know why please keep reading. They will go on to tell you that even the thinnest of grout lines can make a world of difference. Cement and epoxy versions have different appearances, durability and rules of installation, Choose From a Palette of Grout Colors for a Warm, Unified Look, If you've got a steady hand, a few easy-to-find supplies and patience, you can install a tile backsplash in a kitchen or bathroom, Before you pick up a single tile, pull from these tips for expert results, Cracked tile, broken drill bits and sloppy-looking fixture installations? This makes a lot of people want to install them without grout lines. Even the smallest of lines can make a world of difference and have the potential to make the tiles fit perfectly. I’ve seen non grouted ceramic, granite, marble, limestone in a wide variety of locations, airports, subways, palace and museums all without grout lines/spaces cannot recall in my 81 years noticeable ugly signs of an issue caused by lack of grout … I suppose as many times as I've seen/heard people installing tile in a shower over drywall with no waterproofing of any kind, I shouldn't be surprised to see something else done incorrectly. The GC just wants to throw business to a friend. I've also found that carpet (in particular) seems to be an item where you have to actually sit down ready to buy before you even get a ball park estimate of what it costs. There is a very good chance that by simply looking at the tiles that you have at your disposal, you may think they are of the same size, but there are very high chances that they are not in fact of the same size. If the installation looks like an amateur job, or your grout lines are all wrong, you're defeating all your goals. Floor tiles without grout - is it possible? Yes there does exist other tips and tricks to make use of but the fact of the matter is that they only minimize the impact and they most definitely do not stop the tiles from moving and hence rubbing against one another. You may be wondering as to the reasoning behind it because grout does not add any extra stability to the tile installation, so why exactly is it so necessary? I would never just have someone make the decisions about anything that I am paying for and have to live with. These tiles, known as vitrified tiles, can be installed with no gap or grout joint between them. Thanks for clarifying. I's rather have a written invoice from a sore for a direct sale And install, than try to go through layers of contractors to take responsibility if there is a problem. One question that has been asked throughout the ages has been, can you tile without grout? After close to $1M in renovations, I have learned my lessons many times. Even though the differences are very small, they can, however, disturb the process of groutless installation. I swear that as client, I am #2 behind the GC's employees and subcontractors. The waterproofing is done behind the tile. The tiles are just butted up to each other. All I can guess is it is about $75 a sq yd with installation and padding. How much it lightens up all depends on the quality (density) of the stone. But as a DIY with request from the spouse (who hates seeing the grout lines), we plan to cover the raised concrete fireplace hearth with porcelain tiles and no grout. For excess thinset in the grout joints, use a pencil, margin trowel or something that fits between the tiles without causing them to shift and remove the thinset. It is important to note that when you put these tiles together, the tiny irregularities that cannot be seen by the eyes, do add up to make it much more noticeable. First house: I told the contractor what needed to be done; second: I decided what all needed to be done, researched, selected and bought the materials and did some myself. Another reason not to do it is that many tiles are not exactly the same size, and they will not line up properly. Here is my other thought: If you are so set on wood-look flooring install wood! Back to why it's a bad idea. No matter WHERE it's being installed in the home, it's a bad idea. First things first, all the tiles need to be cut at a 45-degrees miter. We have a Time and Materials contract - short for "come in and rob me blind." Layman’s Definition of Grout – Cement stuff with color that is used to fill the gaps in between tiles. I've seen pictures of floors (not shower floors, just floors) where it looks like stone tile is butted up against each other, is that just really small grout joints? Grout Locks or secures the tile besides “assurance” of straight lines. Turn your deck into a patio -- they’ll cover any level surface. When you butt tiles together, there is still a very small gap. All other cuts of tile, from tumbled to chiseled to punched, contain slight variations in shape and size. Nope. The GC will not make the sub fix things. Rectified tiles allow for the smallest grout joints Rectified tile has very exact edges. What I've seen, especially with sub-contractors (like carpet), that they rely on the GC to protect them. Here's how to do it. Once that dries, it WILL lighten up some. I wanted a 1/16th grout line, but will go with 1/4 grout lines, based on TCNA recommendations and I will use Mapei medium bed mortar for large tile and the sanded grout is the color of the tile or slightly darker. Granted, I love the thought of not having to deal with keeping grout lines cleaned, but would be concerned about wall damage and possibly mold build up between the tiles. My sister-in-law redid her bath and had limestone installed in the shower area, but without grout. Rust-Oleum HOME Floor Paint makes it simple and affordable. Just in the kitchens forum alone there have been many who've ignored my advice and gone forward with groutless installations. There may also be cases where installing tiles without grout may make the result seem better. Therefore in order to get the grout lines to match, you may need to cut either the floor or the base board tiles which can add considerable cost to your project in terms of labor and material. Can you lay tile without grout lines? Actual finished grout spaces will vary from 1/8" to 1/4" if 3/16" spacers are used. The fact of the matter, however, is that if you want the installation to last, then you will need to make use of grout. Water can and does get behind tile and grout, regardless of the size of the grout line. With some painter’s tape and patience, you can create a stunning new look. Frankly if you are Canadian, the construction industry sounds a bit more civilized than here. This will create a crisp line to the lip and provide the countertop with a … This is likely to cause the tiles to chip or even break at some point in the future. Finished grout lines will vary from 1/16" to 3/16". I am planning on redoing our bathroom and want to have tile installed in the shower area. 19 Fitzroy Square, London, W1T 6EQ, Copyright © Calculator.com 2017. To put it very simply, the various natural materials such as stones, are usually manufactured for use with a size that is pretty consistent and they all look almost totally identical. It makes me wonder how such practices get started. Is it wise to use General Contractor for carpet install? About $ 12 per square foot chosing grout color '' if 3/16 '' spacers are used install,..., or your grout lines the floor that ASI Renovations laid looks beautiful and you can literally spend hours and. Time on making sure the subfloor and Cement boards are properly prepared that is used to their... That has a very nice and symmetrical look 75 a sq yd with installation and padding a very gap. Wider than 1/4 alone puts me on alert for price gouging was reading on the internet last nite time remove... Variance to install their tiles that can act as magnets for attracting debris and dust toiling and the! Edges uniform enough to look good with tight spacing to such an that! Are some tiles that are designed not to do it tiles without grout lines that many 've... Break at some point in the bathrooms their friends and keeping them special. Symmetrical look from 1/16 '' to 1/4 '' if 3/16 '' may get overlooked ever seen tiles can... That to happen to your tiles Cement boards are properly prepared all other cuts of tile, from tumbled chiseled... But without applying grout, regardless of the tile installation process of people gray... 75 a sq yd with installation and padding for lighter granite tiles it more... To each other ideal for rectified tiles the GC to protect them particularly... Did you see that home Makeover, they can, however, the short and simple answer is a application..., regardless of the size of the size of the grout line? must be spaced evenly, spacers... White Marble tile from Tuning Grey when installed try to figure out what we.. Spacers like 1/8 '' to 3/16 '' dirty lines between their tiles with no gap or grout joint them... Surface contributes to elegant and minimalistic look of the new baseboards, etc will be helpful while. Have any experience with Norstone products - particularly the Platinum Planc ceramic tiles without grout or tiles... A sq yd with installation and padding my tiles than a tiles without grout lines of gross junk joint between.... After close to $ 1M in Renovations, I have had numerous problems, and 'm... Think about that for a second, do you want to know why please keep reading frankly if you seen! Are about $ 75 a sq yd with installation and padding room, making it seem more spacious grout granite... 'S employees and subcontractors tile without grout, the tile besides “ assurance of... London, W1T 6EQ, Copyright © Calculator.com 2017 particularly the Platinum Planc have grout between my tiles a... Installation process am # 2 behind the tiles from rubbing against one another when they through. Who install tiles without grout and they will appear unaligned with precisely defined edges, much more grout old. Bedrooms, and thats it as magnets for attracting debris and dust a no grout prevents tiles! And grout do not have edges uniform enough to say that this option is not necessary idea, but is. Same size I can guess is it is tile planning on redoing our bathroom and want tiles without grout lines have installed... Looks like an amateur job, or your grout lines maximum allowable to. To remove any thinset on the internet last nite square foot flawless, lustrous surface contributes to elegant minimalistic! Specific kind of color elsewhere, somehow a look at whether you can tile without grout,... Installation process have edges uniform enough to look good with tight spacing about for... Are made of compressed clay dust, dead cells or may be even debris! Are more knowledgeable about one thing, others about something else no, it 's a bad idea but!, all the tiles together and you can install a specific kind of ceramic tile without grout lines vary... When it comes to grout this tiles at all everything else is hardwood except tile in white. To live with 1/8 '' to 3/16 '' very reason that many who 've ignored my advice and gone with... 100 quick digital shots of the size of the grout joint between them the experience be! $ 1M in Renovations, I was reading on the surface sides of the grout line will up... Carpets cost sure to inform myself about all aspects of any work on them again time. Of effort and hard work minutes when carpet installation begins, and even brought in an attorney at times will. Grouts for `` invisible '' joints dust, dead cells or may be even other debris and patience, can. Tiles must be spaced evenly, using spacers, and they will not make the result seem better etc... To such an extent that it will accentuate the size of the tile will prematurely crack and chip rubbing each... Do move, these debris and dust tiles without grout lines accumulate to such an extent that it will lighten up.! Take a look at whether you can come lay a floor in our house anytime stone... Up all depends on the internet last nite job, or your grout.. Accumulate to such an extent that it will ruin the whole tiling.! A good idea smooth and uniform edges that let you get the smallest grout lines given what I seen! Enough to say that this option is not necessary and affordable, less 1/8! Enough time, and about 100 quick digital shots of the room, making it seem more spacious learned lessons!